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Forum:Core vs Shadow
February 18, 2011, 09:38 (UTC) It might not be official terminology, but I think we should define Shadow Creature as a "corrupted" creature (like Dark Vellup, Chaos Jile, etc), whereas Core Creature is from the core itself (like Koil, Jingjack). What do you think? AKFrost 09:38, February 18, 2011 (UTC) February 18, 2011, 20:15 (UTC) I don't have that big of a problem with making such a distinction, but if we do, we would have to mention somewhere that we are using a term that is technically unofficial. I usually just go with what is said on the Magi-Nation Duel cards, since that is the original media, and differing away from that can offend potential readers. Also, there's not a clear distinction whether or not some Core Creatures are actually corrupted. There are a couple unofficial terms I have added or might add in the future: DoS (Damage on Salafy) for instance, is probably the easiest way of calculating the base damage of attacks, for instance, since magi other than Agram don't have defense and Salafy is the most easily accessible magi. I already use the term "Core Gate Guardian" on the Core Keepers, which is specified on the relevant category page. There isn't really an official term for them to begin with. Vellup 20:15, February 18, 2011 (UTC) February 18, 2011, 22:30 (UTC) :I noticed that the category for those creatures is core/shadow dream creatures, which I interpreted to mean that there's no official stance on this. If i'm wrong correct me. As for what's corrupted and what isn't, I don't know about the cards, but in-game it's easy since the corrupted ones require animite from the non-corrupted forms. As for sticking that terminology somewhere... There's bound to be a place. AKFrost 22:30, February 18, 2011 (UTC) February 19, 2011, 00:34 (UTC) The "Core/Shadow" category is reminiscent of how this wiki used to be a front for the TV Series, which was why this wiki was never taken seriously in the past--you see, everything Core related in the TV Series is referred to as a "Shadow" Magi/Creature, including characters that obviously aren't like say, Agram. Other pro-TV Series elements I haven't got to yet on this wiki includes the character infoboxes on some of the Dream Creature articles. The information on those infoboxes revolves around TV Series related traits. Yeah. Much of my original work on this wiki was to fix up a lot of what is on here so the stance would become more neutral. Some examples of this are the separation of the articles regarding Tony. I'm still not done yet. Partly because of respect for Lhikan (who is a TV Series fan), and also because its better for the most part to stick with canon, I (a GBC game fan) decided to standardize all the terminology on this wiki so that it would adhere to Magi-Nation Duel instead of the GBC game or the TV Series. If I didn't, it wouldn't be clear whether or not articles like Sharbloot, Porkuslime, or Graw should use their original names. The thing with whether or not Creatures are "corrputed" or not is a lot different than what goes on with the Magi. With the Shadow Magi, it is clearly stated that these characters were once Magi of their original region--in fact, there is even official fiction regarding their histories. As for the Creatures... while they could certainly have been corrupted as well, they could also be interpreted just as much to have been based on the species of the creature they were named after, or that they are a similar, but completely different species native to the Core region, much like how there are Jiles native to the Bograth, Cald and Orothe regions. It isn't clear that, for example, each individual "Shadow" creature was originally a normal creature, whereas the Shadow Magi were once regular magi, free from the Core's influence, and chose to join the Core afterward. The infused animite requirement could just imply that the two species of creature are related, as is the case with plenty of normal creatures--Wasperine requires Plith animite to be forged, for example. While a "Shadow" title might be useful, one thing to note is that I always state at the top of the relevant article what Creature the species was originally "corrupted" from. Also, if we did stick the terminology in, we would just add a link to wherever the term "Shadow" leads to and write the distinction at the top of the page. Vellup 00:34, February 19, 2011 (UTC) February 19, 2011, 01:15, (UTC) :Sounds good, just stick with Core then unless it's a specific TV thing. AKFrost 01:15, February 19, 2011 (UTC) July 4, 2012, 06:55, (UTC) REVIVING TOPIC Just for some late clarification on this, "Shadow" is an official term used in the TV series. While it may not be the same as in the TCG, this is no reason to call such information unofficial. This being said, though, it and other TV series changes do lead to unnecessary confusions on the part of Cookie Jar Entertainment. The best way to think of this that I can think of is the multiverse, first employed in comic book writing for this very reason. Different authors had their own takes on events and ended up creating tons of contradictions and paradoxes. Eventually, the multiverse was used to explain these completely different timelines under the different authors. From watching the TV Series, there was nothing to truly differentiate "Shadow Creatures" from "Core Creatures" or "Shadow Magi" from "Core Magi" as anything that would be referred to as "Core" in other media was called "Shadow" in the TV Series. Differentiating between Core and Shadow would be like differentiating between Moonlands for Balamant and Forest Jile, really. Gorath, for example, is called a Shadow Creature in the show. My best bet on an explanation is looking at groups like the Jiles, Arbolls, and Furoks in terms of biology. And by that, I mean nearly an identical process. You have a base species, such as "Jile," which has a variety of subspecies depending on its environment. As a Jile is native to Bograth, it would seem logical that all Jiles originated there. A Jile who went to Naroom to live was modified as a Forest Jile; one who went to Cald became a Magma Jile; one who Orothe became a Hunter Jile (or Sea Jile); one who went to the Core became a Chaos Jile. The infusion of Core energy, possibly, may just speed up this process. It's hard to really tell much since I can't recall anything similar for any other Moonland. That does bring up a good question, though… how should we work with this term without overriding the differing canonicities? Changing every reference to one or the other is completely out of question, but I also have never been entirely satisfied with how it currently is either. That's only become less and less satisfied with the emergence of GBC and TCG information. That's why the categories place Core first, as it seemed to be the better of the two terms. One thing I can do is go through and change the "Core/Shadow" categories and pages to simply "Core" and include a "Shadow" as a redirect page. So, Category:Shadow Dream Creatures and Category:Core/Shadow Dream Creatures would both redirect to Category:Core Dream Creatures. The individual pages can include a note at the top that the two terms are the same but from different media (see Category:Core/Shadow Dream Creatures for example). Any further thoughts? : 06:55, July 4, 2012 (UTC) :The change sounds useful. There are only 43 Core/Shadow Dream Creature pages, so even if we have to go into each page to manually adjust the categories, it shouldn't be unreasonably time-consuming. :One thing we don't want is to break however, is the uniformity between pages, because that causes confusion for editors. Changing "Core/Shadow" to "Core" could work, but if we did it we'd also have to change the category tags on the bottom of each page to match the new category as well. One obstacle to note is that when editors add categories, both "Core/Shadow" and "Core" Dream Creatures will probably show up on the list whether one is redirected or not, which is again, very confusing for editors who are likely to just pick one randomly. :As such, if we went through with this, Core/Shadow might actually have to be deleted, with an explanation of the term added to the Core Dream Creatures category page. If that's not what you had in mind, leaving Core/Shadow as it is will probably suffice. Using both categories depending on the Dream Creature is too messy, in my opinion. The distinction simply isn't strong enough to accurately sort most Creatures without resorting to guessing. :Also, one category that should definitely be changed is simplifying Core/Mutant Hyrens to just "Core Hyrens". : 23:11, July 4, 2012 (UTC)